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which engine to use??

PostPosted: 01 Jun 2010 12:25
by ShebMadass
O.K. ,
I have been through this over and over and over and still come up where i started.I need some help.
What type of engine fits a MadAss with no mods? HONDA cr50 or what.This is driving me nuts!!!
Anyone please!?!?!?!
Shebmadass

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 01 Jun 2010 19:04
by Blue Ridge Rider
The manual I see mentioned on some sites that is used to fix out engines is for a Honda CL 50.

The CR 50 motor looks a different. (Google Images CR 50 and you'll see what I mean)

Check out tboltusa for a nice choice of engines.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2010 20:18
by Cbinvb
So the engine mount pattern is Honda CRF50.

There are many different Chinese engine manufacturers who make this style of engine - YX, Lifan, Jailing, Loncin, Daytona, Zongshen. American companies take them and rebrand them as GPX, G2, Thumpstar, OGM, SSR, Pitster Pro, Piranha and so on, but they are ALL made by YX, Lifan, Loncin, Jailing or Zongshen. And all of these engines are made in CHINA.

Honda, Takegawa, and Kitaco are top-of-the-line engines made in Japan. Honda is a bit of both, all parts are engineered and manufactured in Japan but assembled in Thailand, Malaysia and China. These three options are ROCK SOLID engines. They are very powerful, very expensive and very reliable with proper maintenance and operation. If you have the paper, you can't go wrong with one of these.

Daytona is made by Zongshen and is a great motor, basically China's stab at the high-end engine market with a solid showing of power and reliability, but you pay for it, not as much as you would for the Japanese mills though.

Your best bet for getting a good balance of reliability, power, and affordability are Jailing, Lifan, Zongshen - in that order.

Now with that being said, if you buy ANY I repeat ANY of these engines you will also need to purchase the 3-phase Stator/Flywheel from Fasttrails.com*

There are NO engines that come with a 3-phase stator except if you buy from Moto-scoot or Fasttrails Madass Engine kits. Even when an engine says it comes with a "lighting coil" it is still not enough for the Madass 3-phase system. A 3-phase charging system is characteristic of larger sport bikes.

Now, if you opt to buy the engine and stator separately you will save over $200 were you to buy the YX160 or Lifan 150 from FTP or Moto-scoot. You will need a $15 flywheel puller to do this swap though. Very easy to do.

One last thing, if you buy an engine with a "KLX-style head" thats fine, but the Madass exhaust will need to be bent accordingly to fit the angle of the exhaust port.

Planetminis.com is a the leading resource for these types of engines. Miniriders.com is the leading Aussie source.

* http://www.fasttrails.com/Item296/Madas ... elect.aspx

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010 11:16
by MilwaukeeMadass
Great information. Thanks for sharing!

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010 23:41
by Sir_Jaon
You are AWESOME.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2010 10:55
by ShebMadass
The most information i have recieved yet.
I bow to you my master!!!!
Shebmadass

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 30 Jul 2010 10:59
by Lucky
I wonder what the scoop is on this motor.
http://drmadass.blogspot.com/
Think they had to swap stators?

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 30 Jul 2010 11:41
by chunkel
i got an jincheng Dax engine under my bike ;).... fits very well

Image

Image

cheers.....

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010 17:46
by Cbinvb
That ignition cover is the sex. Got an extra?

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 19 Aug 2010 22:47
by Lucky
Cbinvb wrote:So the engine mount pattern is Honda CRF50.


Now, if you opt to buy the engine and stator separately you will save over $200 were you to buy the YX160 or Lifan 150 from FTP or Moto-scoot. You will need a $15 flywheel puller to do this swap though. Very easy to do.
....

So if I understand correctly, it's possible to swap your original stator and flywheel from the 125 Madass to say the YX160cc? Sorry, I'm thick.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 19 Aug 2010 23:11
by Cbinvb
'Fraid not. Would be nice though, but here's why.

The stock Madass engines are electric start. That little electric starter turns a chain directly connected to the flywheel. This necessitates a different design than what is used in motors that don't have an electric start. If you were to sit the two types of engines side by side you would notice that the flywheel and ignition setup of the 125cc engine looks like it has been completely inverted compared to that of the YX160.

Afaik, there are no motors over 125cc that utilize an electric starter because those little battery motors lack the torque to get those big displacement mills to turn over.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 12 Sep 2010 04:21
by roidrage
I am new to the Madass army and would like to know if the Honda GY6 type engine could be swapped in to the Madass. I found a site that can take it further than any of the engines from OOracing and Tboltusa. They can take a GY6 to 272cc. Here is the link http://www.samuraiscoot.com/ I asked Daniel K.from samurai scoot and at first he said that they looked 90% similar but then wasn't sure if it would work because he usually works on scooters with CVTs (Zuma 125s) not manuals. They have a couple of videos on youtube showing the performance of their engines and it looks very impressive. If it fits then I will peruse it unless there is something more powerful that will fit.
Thanks

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 12 Sep 2010 18:29
by satur9
not even remotely close.you could shove a vertical engine parallel even before a gy6 will fit.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010 04:43
by roidrage
So the 170cc 27bhp OOracing engine would be the most powerful engine to swap in without doing any major welding or cutting?

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010 16:27
by Blue Ridge Rider
How about TBolt's YX Fusion Works Engines. They have a 160, 184, and 192cc. Don't know how many horses they have

http://www.tboltusa.com/store/yx-fusion ... 36f20ac919

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010 23:10
by Cbinvb
TBolt is a great place to buy from. I would personally buy a Zongshen 155 HO and a TB V2 head before I buy the Fusion engine though.

Better quality engine and higher output for the about same money.

You will need a larger carb, the Madass stator from FTP and a KLX stlye exhaust for it to be a complete plug'n'play though, but thats the same case with the TBolt engines.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2010 13:49
by chunkel
Cbinvb wrote:That ignition cover is the sex. Got an extra?


hey, its an original Honda cover ;)

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 30 Sep 2010 08:58
by Bl4kkat
If I understand correctly I can just swap out the stator from my stock 50cc motor and transplant it into the lifan 110cc motor? They are both elec./kick start and manual...

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010 19:07
by Cbinvb
If they both have an electric start, then yes

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 10 Oct 2010 04:25
by ChrisD
Our stock engines have the electric start under the cylinder.
I see some lifan engines 125cc that come with an optional electric starter but they have them under the cylinder, where the carb is in our bikes like this one:
Image
Anyone tried to install one of them?

If you turn the inlet and carb facing the front of the bike there is room left for the starter. I like having it as it is practical and try to find a way to have one if I upgrade my engine

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010 08:51
by Conan
awesome thread.

This engine claims to have a stator that will support lights and charging ... Does anyone know if it's likely to be direct plug in? The less shipping i have to do the happier i am:
http://www.dhz.com.au/product_info.php? ... 54d2335a9b

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010 16:50
by satur9
its not likely to be a direct plug in . unless its 3 phase.

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010 17:47
by Cbinvb
No, that motor wont support your 55 watt lights.

you need one of these two stators

http://fasttrails.com/Item296/Madass_St ... elect.aspx

OR

http://www.alexwarehouse.com/12-pole-fu ... p3249.html

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010 19:36
by Blue Ridge Rider
That second one is pretty cool, 4 phase instead of 3. I think I read the stock pumps out 110 watts so I guess that would put out almost 150 watts?

Re: which engine to use??

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2010 01:07
by Conan
Cbinvb wrote:No, that motor wont support your 55 watt lights.

you need one of these two stators


Cheers for that. Anyone have any experience with the second one? Will look into shipping costs and see whether i'm better off buying local or not ...