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which engine to use??

Pistons, cylinders, cylinder head, lubrication

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby sabertooth_buterfly » 23 Mar 2011 02:01

In my opinion the 110 would be a better way to go compared to the big bore kit (my motor was BB'd before I got it and I would estimate that it realy didnt do very much for it, it was still limited to 50ish kph without the limiter), I think you might be disapointed with the BB kit. Another thought, if your going to get a manual license then maybe wait until then and upgrade to a bigger (better) motor once you have the license for it? I would consider a zong 140 as the minimum worth upgrading to.
Yes a stator is often refered to as an alternator, it does simmilar job of charging the battery, but on a bike it also triggers the spark for ignition.
If your in Sydney and you got a motor from DHZ I am sure the guys there would fit a stator for you before you pick it up if you asked them (might cost a few $), Ken at DHZ is a top guy.
One thing to note most china motors take a 8mm top mount bolt and the MA uses a 10mm, I just drill the hole in the motor cases bigger to suit. Maybe something else you could ask Ken about?
My personal opinion is that the motor to have is one of the klx style motors (listed as pitster pro on DHZ web page).
Ohh yea not guru just have to much spare time LOL
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby MilwaukeeMadass » 23 Mar 2011 07:10

With the work you've done to your bike Tina I think it's a fair statement to call you a guru or perhaps the Queen of Mod.
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby badass » 23 Mar 2011 07:13

Just to let you know; changing to a semi-auto still may mean you are "riding out of class". In other words semi auto or manual you will most likely still be considered riding without a licence.

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby sabertooth_buterfly » 23 Mar 2011 07:35

Badass raises a very important point, if your riding on a car license (under 50cc) the bike should be restricted to about 50kph max. Also the compliance for 50cc bikes is "LA" and all bikes that are over 50cc are "LC" class I'm not sure what the legalities for fitting a bigger motor to a LA class bike are, probably they would want an engineering report to ensure that it still complies with the relevant design regs.
For my “50cc” I am practicing the phrase “goes pretty well for a 50cc hey officer” if I am asked I'm going to reply that it still has all of it's 50cc's.
But I’m not riding on a car license so I may get a little more leniency, but I am aware that my bike could be put off the road until I get a road worthy certificate (It’ll just go back to stock’ish for a day)
Having said this I know lot's of z 50's with much larger motors fitted and they very rarely get put of the road.
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Dallas HappyAss » 23 Mar 2011 13:37

Ahhh, just swing a big motor and grind off the cc stamp! That's what I did on my yx160, I get stopped by the fuzz in my city every so often, no more than any other hooligan I suppose. The funny thing is I didn't have it ground off until just the other day, and I've been in situations where cops are looking at my license (moped restriction from when she was a 50 cc) and ask me about my bike, I usually just tell them it's got an aftermarket head that's why you saw me doing 55mph on my moped.

You only live once! Cheers, suerte!
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Sir_Jaon » 23 Mar 2011 14:28

Mine is the stock 50 but has allways been able to go faster (not much) then 50kph, when asked how fast does it go? 'She tops out at 50 officer' ;) and I was sent on my way...
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby jrytan » 23 Mar 2011 20:36

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for all your guidance :). Well, I'm just looking to change the engine or Big Bore because of the extreme lack of power on a hill climb or hill start. Some drivers can get pretty assy when they're behind me on a single carriage way road and I'd pretty much hate to be run over. So I thought doing a Big Bore would help give me that extra "oomph" up the hill. However, after comparing the price between a Big Bore and the 110cc it seems that the 110cc is way more cost effective (license restrictions aside). I don't really plan on breaking the 70Kph mark so i'm guessing (fingers crossed) i won't get flagged by a cop (but you never know). I guess I'll live with the slow hill climb for now... But I'm still gonna check with a local DHZ dealer if they do the 110cc with the stator for my MA50 :twisted: .

Cheers,
Jer
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby badass » 24 Mar 2011 05:52

If you buy the 110cc, before you add oil to it, take it to a friendly engraver and get your 50cc engine numbers engraved into it!! :twisted:

For legal purposes I insist that you do not follow my advice

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby jrytan » 30 Mar 2011 20:28

Lol... do you reckon any engraver would do it without questioning me? haha cuz i am considering that.
I've ordered my Engine! So far:
110cc Lifan Semi Auto w/ Mikuni 26mm Carby Kit
Stator from OORacing
Muffler and Rack from Neptune

Can't wait for their arrival! :twisted: Keep you all posted with pictures when they come in.
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Dallas HappyAss » 09 Apr 2011 12:48

I know that where I live you can find cheaper engravers at the hardware store, with some practice I'm sure you could make it perfect! I found this one, this is exactly what I'm talking about...

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ELECTRIC-POWER- ... dZViewItem
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby puretexan » 11 Apr 2011 14:37

I'm going to try to make a choice on a motor in a few days. I have read everything here and on any site I could find. If someone says a Pitster pro 155z motor is good , there are four that say they break cranks and mess up all kinds of things . If someone says Lifan is good , there are four that say it misses shifts and they break when you try to start them. You start geting into the top priced motors that will cost you $1500 plus and the guys that race them say they break all the time. I know even Honda in the 60's and 70's built motors that sometimes had problems. Not as often and most are still running today. I doubt that anyone can run a china motor for 35 years and still have it perform. Then throw into these motors the problems with the person putting them together , having life problems or being sick and you will probably get a bad motor. I have come to the conclusion that a cheap Lifan 125 tuned right is about all anybody would need. Or course I'm probably wrong and mine will fall apart, but for a couple hundred shipped ,I will be able to afford several. Think of all the good parts I will have to replace whatever else breaks. :shock: ;)

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Stewped » 11 Apr 2011 22:07

I dont know too much -- But because im poor and cheap I purchased a complete engine installed kit from Fast Trails Performance. -- Now this kit included the 3rd generation yx160cc engine -- a 26 Molkt carb -- a foam air filter -- the 3 phase stator -- and some other shit , all for $600.00. {I changed out the carb latter on for a true Mikuni -- however alot of people are able to dial in their Molkt carbs -- I just gave up on it}

Now it is no secrect that im a little bit rough on my bike and this engine has really held up to the test. -- Yeah alot of retards break their kick starter gear because they dont know how start a higher compression engines.

Dallas was installing the same yx160cc engine on his bike at the same time I was -- I have a little over 1,000 miles and think Dallas has like 2,000 miles on his {when he is not smashing into SUVs}

I have been really happy with the performance of my engine -- My engine just screams {lol for mercy} Have a couple of videos here in the galley section of me beating the shit out of it. -- However I do change the oil frequently { lol where the stock 125cc engine I never did } because it dosnt hold alot of oil and it tears through the oil condition quickly

I dont know -- what ever makes you wet -- perhaps a lower compression engine may be a bit more reliable and last a bit longer -- I myself desire performance and durability

There are also 142cc kits availabe for the stock Lifian motors and keep the electric start -- Greg probably has the tightest set up for this upgrade {once in awhile you have to kiss the moderater ass so he dosnt boot you} -- or you could just go balls out and do a Cbinvb on your bike
Yeah -- OK -- So I may have a huge plastic head -- So What
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby puretexan » 12 Apr 2011 09:34

$600 huh..... OUCH! I see the same guy selling the same exact motor on Ebay for $299....a little down ...$399..a little more down....$499. Wonder what gives? Do they have ones that are the same , but better quality , or is this guy hoping some nut will click on the highest priced one by mistake? All these prices for basically the same motor is what makes this decision so confusing.
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Greg » 12 Apr 2011 14:26

puretexan wrote:$600 huh..... OUCH! I see the same guy selling the same exact motor on Ebay for $299....a little down ...$399..a little more down....$499. Wonder what gives? Do they have ones that are the same , but better quality , or is this guy hoping some nut will click on the highest priced one by mistake? All these prices for basically the same motor is what makes this decision so confusing.


Just to clarify for others, I am pretty sure those prices you are giving are not for the YX 160. The cheapest I see on eBay right now are more than a thousand dollars each and have 184cc big bore kits. I don't trust eBay dealers, and personally wouldn't buy a name brand anything on eBay. The chances of getting a clone are too high. For me eBay is good for parts under $50, like mirrors, grips, lights, etc; non-performance parts.

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby puretexan » 12 Apr 2011 16:57

The prices I said for a couple hundred are for a 125cc lifan. I really would have a hard time spending $800 for a madass and then stick a $1000 motor on it. I will probably stick with something cheap, till I see I have to have a rocket , and then make the same decisions everybody else is making. You have to wade around in the pool till you learn how to swim. ;)
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby vondohlenj9965 » 13 Apr 2011 22:03

I'm new to the forum and I've been following this thread closely because I want to do this exact mod to my Madass. In fact just bought my yx160 w/ 4 valve head today from FTP. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions and need advice a time or two. At least I know where to turn. Thanks for thread on this.
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My Madass 125 http://www.madassarmy.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1375
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Stewped » 05 May 2011 22:11

Having a bigger engine really is not going to necessarily dictate a higher speed from your bike, crank speed/rpm does. -- This is where gearing the bike becomes a factor. -- However to beable to pull a higher geared set up will probably require more torque & hp, and this is where a bigger bored engine will help. -- Generally speaking if the bigger engines transmission gears are the same as the smaller engines transmission gears , your top speed will probably will not increase {providing the pinion and final drive sprockets have not been changed} , however you will obtain top speed much quicker and maintain a higher speed up hills and against wind.

Keep in mind aswell things like Air & Fuel delivery -- Valve & Cylinder Camber Size -- Compression -- Cam Lift and Duration and Exhaust Escape will all play factors in any engine aswell an Ign System that is able tollerate the intake will all be vital factors to obtain optimal performance {These items must compliment each other to make a match}

Cbinvb has a really nice set up -- But of coarse he had it all figured out on paper a month prior to installation and already knew what to expect out of perfromance

I just took a shot at the cheapest set up I could find and got lucky -- I still run the stock exhaust and really dont feel too much restriction {maybe runs a bit hotter} -- However if I was going for anything larger than the 160cc and a 26mm carb then I would probably have to open up the exhaust a bit
Yeah -- OK -- So I may have a huge plastic head -- So What
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby Heatseeker » 16 May 2011 15:59

hello is this one working for Lifan 140cc engine om my madass 2005

http://www.alexwarehouse.com/12-pole-fu ... p3249.html

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby demaaus » 03 Jul 2011 19:12

Cbinvb wrote:So the engine mount pattern is Honda CRF50.

There are many different Chinese engine manufacturers who make this style of engine - YX, Lifan, Jailing, Loncin, Daytona, Zongshen. American companies take them and rebrand them as GPX, G2, Thumpstar, OGM, SSR, Pitster Pro, Piranha and so on, but they are ALL made by YX, Lifan, Loncin, Jailing or Zongshen. And all of these engines are made in CHINA.

Honda, Takegawa, and Kitaco are top-of-the-line engines made in Japan. Honda is a bit of both, all parts are engineered and manufactured in Japan but assembled in Thailand, Malaysia and China. These three options are ROCK SOLID engines. They are very powerful, very expensive and very reliable with proper maintenance and operation. If you have the paper, you can't go wrong with one of these.

Daytona is made by Zongshen and is a great motor, basically China's stab at the high-end engine market with a solid showing of power and reliability, but you pay for it, not as much as you would for the Japanese mills though.

Your best bet for getting a good balance of reliability, power, and affordability are Jailing, Lifan, Zongshen - in that order.

Now with that being said, if you buy ANY I repeat ANY of these engines you will also need to purchase the 3-phase Stator/Flywheel from Fasttrails.com*

There are NO engines that come with a 3-phase stator except if you buy from Moto-scoot or Fasttrails Madass Engine kits. Even when an engine says it comes with a "lighting coil" it is still not enough for the Madass 3-phase system. A 3-phase charging system is characteristic of larger sport bikes.

Now, if you opt to buy the engine and stator separately you will save over $200 were you to buy the YX160 or Lifan 150 from FTP or Moto-scoot. You will need a $15 flywheel puller to do this swap though. Very easy to do.

One last thing, if you buy an engine with a "KLX-style head" thats fine, but the Madass exhaust will need to be bent accordingly to fit the angle of the exhaust port.

Planetminis.com is a the leading resource for these types of engines. Miniriders.com is the leading Aussie source.

* http://www.fasttrails.com/Item296/Madas ... elect.aspx



Whats your opnion of a Piranha engine?
Thanks
demaaus-->

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby MadassSkwurl » 20 Jul 2011 04:37

I have to say i LOVE my new z160ho (z155ho - same shiz)
I just got her back today from the mechanics after an $800 electrical / brake overhaul. :teasing-signhere:

I did a self installation with a friends help, brought the FTP stator and mated that up to the engine and that's where the problems began.
The stator was faulty and killed my battery... and my cdi AND my coil not to mention another coil and cdi from 'Motorbike city' where i got the work done.
They've now changed it to a hybrid system that charges the battery seperate to the operation of the coil / cdi and still has enough juice to run my lights :icon-biggrin:
As for the brakes... we heated the exhaust and bent it into shape to fit the motor / brackets... Someone (me) didn't check the clearance between the exhaust and the master brake cylinder (rear.) Thus my brakes locked up mebbe 6 times :doh:

(I have to throw a shout out to Dom @ MC here. I took my bike in due to the rear brakes locking up, they fixed it for me on a sunday... 40mins down the road they locked up again and he shut up his shop to come down and fix the bike again... What a champ!)

I'll be posting a rather long story on it soon enough. First i've gotta break in this engine properly and make sure all is well :???:

In the 100 or so km's i've put on this engine so far...
OMFG...
its...
just...
AWESOME!!!!
The torque, the power, the noise... :drool:

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby lokiverloren » 08 Oct 2011 00:13

i do a bit of delivery work and i really like the idea of being able to bolt in a ct110 with its centrifugal clutch, and it has just the right amount of power to handle 90km/h comfortably. has anyone put a genuine honda ct110 motor onto a madass, cos i'd like to if it was possible.

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby cometulm » 08 Oct 2011 11:04

The 2nd one you would have to order $300+ in parts not to get an fee of $100 added to the order for it being under $300... From that site you would have to order so much stuff to get that price... I am talking about alex warehouse...
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby evilwerkz » 08 Nov 2011 21:31

I'm reading about this engine, that engine....and then realize, that everyone jumps around when electrics are trown into the mix......so let me ask this......on this engine :

trailbuddies 155cc engine with lights....

http://mytrailbuddystore.com/155ccengin ... ine-1.aspx

doesn't come with a stator of some kind to keep your battery charged ? lets say you change your lights to 35w hids....won't it keep the battery charged? or is it really that sorry......

because everything else should work fine, I'm not talking plug and play here, but the madass CDI requieres only a signal from the magnetic pick up and then it re routes it to the coil....but this engine will com with it's CDI

so the question stands......doesn it have enough juice for a 35w continuos consumption ?

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Re: which engine to use??

Postby UCONN » 01 Dec 2011 13:39

Hey all,

New to the madass and I have a noob question. Picked one up a few weeks ago. Its an 06 50cc manual originally. Previous owner put the 88cc upgrade kit on it before I bought it. Was ridding it and unfortunately a bearing blew in the transmission. So I ordered a new Lifan 150cc (seen here). My question is will I be able to utilize the electric start on the new motor? I'm thinking no but was wondering if there is any way possible to rig the electric start to the new motor?
Thanks
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Re: which engine to use??

Postby cometulm » 01 Dec 2011 16:25

No electric start on that one and no way to integrate one... I think oo Racing offers an electric 150 and fast trails says it is coming out in August but I never saw that happen.. Maybe Aug 2012 as there was no date.

Here is the link to the oo racing

http://www.ooracing.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=3426

My current setup is just kickstart and has not been an issue at all...
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